Forum Fun 001

Got into a forum yesterday where the topic was whether Jesus was a real historical figure or not. I was amazed at the effort the "not" folks put into their posts. But as I read it became clear that their topic was a bait and switch. It wasn't whether or not Jesus "was" it was an attack on "who" believers claimed He was.

The existance of a man named Jesus, living in Judea at the time of Pilate and that Jesus being crucified has adequate biblical and extra-biblical support. Of course "who" he was is another matter. But this was really the matter they were addressing.

What concerned me was the effort responders who claimed to be believers made to counter this twisted argument. From just silly to Bible thumping to vitriolic attacks the believing responders got sucked into an argument they could never win.

That's right. We convert no one! No agruement we could ever construct will bring a person to faith!!! So why bother??????

Well we "bother" because God in His graciousness does use those arguments for His glory in the conversion of men and women. That's a good reason to bother. But - our arguments have to be gracious and kind and patient. We can not argue as though we need to win - "we" win nothing no matter which way the end of the argument goes. We aren't here to beat anybody or to win anything. We are here to be light and salt and witnesses and teachers and preachers ....etc. But this isn't a game and we don't get points.

I have a lot of discussions with people who really hate believers (at least their idea of what a believer is) and they are shocked when I agree with some of thier issues. But, I also tell them that God is not a believer but the object of belief and we as people do a real crummy job of following Him.

One thing we need to keep in mind. We need to be slow to be provoked by assaults on our faith. These assaults won't change our faith, they won't make the truth any less true, they don't make us any less His. So why get all lathered up and act like a pit-bull. No one's unbelief can damage my belief. It can lead them to actions that damage me but not my faith.

I'm reminded of the time my best friend and police partner were in a gun sho (where else would we be?) and Wilbur got into a discussion as to whether there was a God or not. Wilbur was his calm, low key self while the other guy was was getting hotter by the second. Finally guy shouted, "You can't prove to me that there is a God." Calmly Wilbur said, "Sure I can." He slowly drew his gun and laid it in the counter, looked the guy right in the eyes and said, "You won't like it but I can prove there's a God." Point made......argument over......no winner------no looser but point made. It well may be that only in death will that guy have the proof he seeks -that is, of course, is very sad.

But we've got to get it in our heads that nothing we do or say matters. It's what God does with what we do and say that matters. I know men and women who have come to faith because God used really cluzy, sinful, unfaithful, weird believers. Go figure. If He could use and ass to get to Balaam He can use anything to bring folks to Himself.

In the arguments we find ourselves in concerning our faith we need to quit thinking God needs us to defend Him. Yes, we need to be able to give an (true and biblical) answer to questions about our faith but God does not need us to defend Him or to justify our faith in Him. It is NOT about US!

Calm down, take the hits, acknowledge the valid criticisms. You (nor God) have nothing to lose. Remember we are vehicles, conduits of His grace not grief.

Just an insight. I find few folks want to hear about my faith. They, for the most part just want to trash Christianity and/or the church. Their ignorance about both is astounding. I just listen and when they're done I respond, "OK." This freaks them out. But, I'm not going to get into their bait and switch. They want to trash the faith? What else would I expect? If they are willing I'll give them all the time in the world to hear my witness. But, in my experience, they prefer to make an argument for their unbelief. Whatever.